Ms.Patti LaBelle don't mess around. Ask her a question and she refreshingly speaks what is on her mind. And this is exactly what happened when Pridesource had the audacity to ask what being a "Diva" meant to her. Lordy, I was not expecting the response that followed:
For you, what does it mean to be a diva?
That word is used so loosely that I don't even consider myself a diva. I always considered myself a woman who sings her heart out and who gives 120 percent. "Diva" is a word that I wouldn't wanna call myself because it's so loosely used. It's not cute anymore.
Is there a negative connotation to it now?
Yeah, because all these little heifers who can't sing are called divas! It doesn't mean anything to me and probably to some of the other ladies who have been doing it for as long as I have: Gladys Knight, Aretha Franklin, Dionne Warwick. You know, I'm speaking for me - I don't know if they like to be called divas - but I know I wouldn't call them divas, because it's not in good company.
But it used to be a respectable term at some point.
Well, for opera singers, and for ladies who earned it, but that was way, way back when. Now you can look up to them, but you might not see what you wanna see. A hot mess! People who are doing it and doing it with about 40 people on stage with them to hide their pitifulness - that's not a word, but you know what I mean.
Someone had their RDA of Krabby Patties that day! Still, I can't detect any lies being told here; the Dame of all Divas spoke nothing but the truth. The usage of the word has definitely changed in recent years from previously being used to denote a singer with a great voice, to now just being another synonym for any female singer (regardless of talent). I mean, just check out how the line up for the VH1 Divas concert has changed since it started in 1998. Sad times. If only she'd gone further and named names! Now that would have been something!
NB: I'm not unaware that I use the word Divas pretty fast and loose on this site. I'll be sure to punish myself for this indiscretion [...].
Thoughts?
Patti is my spirit animal.
ReplyDeleteLMAO.
ReplyDeletePreach it Mama Patti. (Although their are a few exceptions, of course)
By the way, this is a performance of Patti singing "Somewhere Over The Rainbow" in 1968; 46 years ago - she was 24 years old - would you say that she was a 'Dramatic Soprano' even then or a 'Spinto Soprano' who had matured into one later on?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plt-pTqnRoQ
I live for Ms. Patti... Always and Forever. LOL.
ReplyDelete*Watches - Got To Be Real*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szhTtl6CuO8 I'll just leave this here....
ReplyDeleteWe need more of this honesty in popular culture. On the news I heard someone call Katy Perry a diva.
ReplyDeleteThat hair is another entity entirely.
ReplyDeletethat wasn't very kind...
ReplyDeleteLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
ReplyDeleteGO PATTI! A blog post like this was needed after a long day of hard tests.
Thank you DD and thank you Ms. Labelle.
Very direct but very true. It reminded me of the first time I came to the site. I was looking for Kelly Clarkson's vocal range and I saw she was listed as a Diva here and I thought "I don't think Kelly can be considered a Diva. She's good, but Diva is a very heavy word to use".
ReplyDeleteAnd hell, it's true that many words are being overused as of late. Words like "Diva", "Epic" and "Legend" have completely lost its meaning due to internet overuse,
I think Kelly could have been a Diva, as that's where American Idol was pushing her towards. However her love for bluegrass and alternative music turned her into a Pop Rock star with a country twist. She definitely has the chops but not the stage personality.
ReplyDeleteTruth hurts?
ReplyDeleteI think Kelly's definitely more of a diva than some of the singers we talk about (and love) on this site. Always giving a strong show with a solid vocal performance. It's just her style and personality that's not always commonly thought of when thinking of divas.
ReplyDeleteBut I agree those words are overused, I'm guilty myself of it also, but I hope everybody can at least understand I'm not really taking myself seriously when I jokingly call Selena Gomez a "Legend"
Her bob throws more shade than her mouth states honesty! That gif is the shit!!!!
ReplyDeleteLove is mean and love hurts but I still remember that day we met in december oh babyyy...
ReplyDeleteI also think most of it was concentrated this year, and I feel like I've been saying this all over so you may have read already, but I feel like most of her shakiness in 2013 was because of her surgery and getting used to using her voice again. Another thing is like you said, she's beent rying to conform to something more mainstream, but it doesn't fit her voice or her in general. She has something unique that's hers, I hope she sticks with it. I hope it was only her label that was pushing her in that direction too since she's having her contract ended. There are a few really good songs she's put out even whilst trying to do the more mainstream thing and it always strikes me how her live performances are so much better than the record because she actually has a lot of substance to her performance. She has a lot of potential, I truly think. And her voice is unique to me, it has many uniquely Demi qualities like the rasp and the way it breaks at times. Somehow that adds to the songs for me. She still has her power(which, imo, has grown this last year), and I still think she's driven enough to keep growing and growing. it's just a matter of her sticking to herself. She seems like she's not the kind of person to take bullshit from people, so I feel like it probably was mostly her label pushing her in a direction and I'm hoping she'll gain more freedom on her next album.
ReplyDeletehttp://64.19.142.10/25.media.tumblr.com/dd0d1ca0a186743b247804363e5c1918/tumblr_mzdbn9x1Zf1t1j5dro1_500.gif
ReplyDeleteI would say "Ugh, who cares whether one's ears are hurt by a "spinto" or a "dramatic" ".
ReplyDeleteThe love for this woman on this blog remains a mystery to me.
If Dionne can be considered a "diva" then certainly so can kelly Clarkson.
ReplyDeleteIn her online interviews she talks about liking a lot of Bluegrass but Ive never seen her sing a real blue grass song...
ReplyDeleteI still don't see any reason why Demi couldn't be mad at her father. I know that the child-parent bond and the siblings bond are different, but that doesn't mean you can't have a certain feeling towards them. I myself am a bit mad at my father even though he passed away two years ago.
ReplyDeleteAnd thank you for the correction, don't be reluctant to point out any mistake you see in my writings ^^
Well, many actresses during the "Golden Age of Hollywood" (1920 - 1960) were often called, and cited as, "Diva's" also: Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Mae West, Eartha Kitt, Dorothy Dandridge, Marlene Dietrich, Ava Gardner, Elizabeth Taylor, Sophia Loren, Marilyn Monroe, Audrey Hepburn, Greta Garbo, Katharine Hepburn, Judy Garland, Ingrid Bergman, Grace Kelly, Vivien Leigh, Carole Lombard, Jean Harlow etc. and even today - Meryl Streep, Joan Collins, Halle Berry, Angelina Jolie, Kate Winslet & Diahann Carroll for instance, are called "Diva's". So, what does it really mean and who is it limited too?
ReplyDeletePersonally speaking, if I had to refer to any Female vocalists/performers of this generation as "Diva's" or "Diva's in the Making", they would very well be 'Beyonce & Kelly Clarkson'.
Yes, the word "Diva" does stem from the Opera community, as Female Opera singers were the ones given that name originally, however I also think that incredibly gifted actresses/vocalists/performers should too be given that name if it is TRULY deserved.
LMAO that shade xD but it's true that she has that kind of timber that (equally to Lea Michele's or to licorice) you either love it or hate it.
ReplyDeleteOkay. Now, I understand you. My tastes are exactly the same - from a vocal perspective anyway. I have always loved Male singers, in particular, with a 'Full & Rich' and/or 'Dark & Heavy' tone; namely Baritones (Or Mature- sounding Tenors) as opposed to the ones with Lighter- oriented voices. That is why I, predominantly, listen to Male Traditional- Pop & R&B/Soul vocalists from the 1940's - 1980's. I wonder why the industry no longer promotes Male singers with lower/deeper voices anymore? I have many theories but it's hard to be sure.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I just listened to your recording of 'Let It Go' and I think you have a Beautiful voice; astounding timbre, very full & rich and I love that. Our's are just alike in many ways Brian.
i wonder who she would have named hmm
ReplyDeleteAw thank you. :) Id also like to hear some recordings from you. And I agree about the industries opinion about Deeper male voices. I think it may just have to do with the access to a younger demographic, something someone with a really rich and dark voice may have trouble appealing to.
ReplyDeletelmao! I hope they were trolling.
ReplyDelete'cos Katy Perry is the biggest non-singer i've seen in a long, long time. she quite literally can't sing to save her own life.
I have never heard her reproduce her songs live. And there are tons of nasty teen/tween fansboys/fangirls out there who think she's an amazing singer and all sorts of great and anybody who doesn't agree can go *beep* themselves.
Honestly, when a culture as a whole uses these "terms" in such a throwaway manner their value is instantly diminished and they become near-useless. Over-rated is not even the word to go by here. Probably this generation will have to come up with a new word altogether for truly talented people or whatever their standards for 'talent' are these days....
The main requirement to be a Diva is vocal ability. Plain and simple. Nowadays any chick with a fashion sense (or lack of it) who behaves in a bitchy way thinks she's a diva. Bitch, please.
ReplyDeleteKelly Clarkson is so unrefined and unglamorous though. I could just envision her chewing tobacco and spitting it on the floor, running barefoot and wrestling a pig to the ground. Ugh.
ReplyDeleteIn the world, as I see it, the only remaining pop Divas are Beyonce, Monica Naranjo, Kylie Minogue (who is actually a pretty good singer), Mylene Farmer. They have the vocals, the star quality, the fierce stage persona, the magnetic character, the glamour, etc.
ReplyDeleteSadly, I cannot mention my beloved Mariah as she has gone from true Diva to almost a gay camp parody :*(
LMFAO. I can't with you, I just can't.
ReplyDeleteBut yes, Kylie Minogue & Monica Naranjo are DEFINITELY "Diva's". However, my all-time "Diva's" will always be Diana Ross, Maria Callas, Donna Summer, Joan Sutherland and Whitney Houston (especially in her prime).
I think her voice does sound better when she's singing at a softer level and not trying to belt out her choruses. Other than that I'll give her nothing else.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c6THVVihAA Here is her ruining queen.
Can someone tell me where those Gifs come from?
ReplyDeleteThe lead from Flyleaf. Haley WIlliams is a diva, no denying. And Adam Lambert is fabulous! He epitomizes diva. I cant think of any others today who are Divas.
ReplyDeleteIt's more so the state of mind and overall attitude. They're widely defined by that and their fierceness. Kelly Clarkson unquestionably has that and beyond. She exudes that energy so effortlessly. You never fail to see it in her music videos. Since You Been Gone (ESPECIALLY), I Do Not Hook Up, Behind These Hazel Eyes, and my favourite, Never Again.
ReplyDeleteAs for The Voice, I think it goes without saying that she most certainly has it. She has a well above average voice. She always has. She most certainly fits the criteria for a Diva, even by ms Patti's standards. Also, Kelly's a very beautiful woman, big or not. I never forgot Kelly during the Break Away Era. She's a gorgeous lady.
I'll never forget the interview when she was questioned about Aguilera. She said it plain and simple, I'll never forget: There are singers and then there are SANGERS! ha! I absolutely adore this woman. She speaks her mind without any fear of repercussions. Now that's a diva. I wholeheartedly agree with her. At the end of the day, there are many different conceptions on what a Diva is to many people. However, to me, a Diva will always be an ARTIST who knows themselves and aren't afraid to be all that they are. It's never conditional, what you see is what you get. And most importantly, they're exceedingly and exceptionally talented. They've got the vocals, the presence and attitude. Now, that term is used loosely. I never forgot the time that Miley was branded a Diva...during the Disney Era. Talk about lack of individuality and musical talent. I think Miley's got a hell of a throat on her, so if she molded her craft she could almost pass for Great. Too bad, though; I don't see that happening at this point.
ReplyDeleteBut yes, count on Patti to speak the truth and nothing but the truth. She is one of the ultimate Divas.
I'm aware. But no, not at all. In no way are Spinto voices more metallic or colder than Dramatics. If that's the case the names should be switched. And no, Whitney was not a Mezzo. Young Whitney's voice was REALLY high and she could easily resonate in the Soprano tessitura and while still retaining the naturally dark colour she had, the upper register was fully resonant like a Soprano's should be and you could hear it bloom, If you wish to hear Whitney shine in the upper register, Listen to her rendition of I Am Changing. She goes to A5 easily, numerous G5s. The woman was a Soprano. A lot of her songs were placed in the Mezzo tessitura but her voice certainly couldn't hide there for all too long. She had an affinity to reach those upper notes because her overall registry allowed for it. As she aged, she matured into a Mezzo but that was primarily thanks to drug abuse.
ReplyDeleteYes, she is. Her voice is incredible. Don't know why people prefer frail voices over truly great ones. It's very mid boggling to me.
ReplyDeleteONLY because I genuinely care for her. If it was someone like Ariana, like who the hell cares. She's not special and her voice is everything less than great lol Demi has such amazing potential but she screws herself over. I can't stand it.
ReplyDeleteThey sound very strained to me. First off, that's not her tone on F#5. It was very tight and squeezed sounding. 2nd, it was thin. They sounded awful. Her best studio F#5s that I've heard are the ones in Mistake and maybe The Middle (my favourite Demi Lovato song to date).
ReplyDeleteNot the stage personality? You factually speaking don't know her, period lol Her personality is probably one of the main thing that captures the essence of a Diva and puts her in that league of beings. You need to see her in concert. Her stage personality is excellent, arguably because of her great versatility.
ReplyDeleteBluegrass as in Bluesy songs?
ReplyDelete10+ years of success and relevance makes her more than qualified. Her voice is not average, ever. It's way above the average singer's voice. She's been highly successful and is one of the most influential singers of today. The Idol franchise has been successful and credible primarily because of Kelly. She validates Idol, and her success is what made American Idol credible enough to become practical. Now, this model they've created has been replicated and branched off into many different forms that you see like X Factor, The Voice. People aspire to take on that Platform in order to launch their careers. Never could that have happened hadn't Clarkson achieved the success that she did. Kelly Clarkson started this, and now MILLIONS follow in her footsteps. Kelly's extremely influential. Kelly has The Voice, the influence and the most important quality: Likability. She's not The American Idol by default, she's the American Idol because she actually gives the title life. She's someone America perceives as an Idol because she's ridiculously talented and has that personality that makes you gravitate toward her. She's a role model. The woman stood up to one of the biggest Musical Icons in history and in no way succumbed to his intimidation: Clive Davis. You're never going to define this woman. She's not going to conform to these newer traditions because that's "what's happening". She's her own person and makes no apologies for it and if you have a problem with it then that's her invitation for you to screw yourself. How is she not a Diva? Kelly being a Diva should never be questionable, ever.
ReplyDeleteYou're trolling lol
ReplyDelete...vocal placement? You mean in the throat? lol Britney isn't technically better than anyone. She's just as bad as Christina, no if ands or buts. How does a light voice like that crack in the 3rd octave? She always placed her sound in the throat, always. She can't resonate to save her life. Christina? Needless to say anything lol They're both technically awful singers, none better than the other. The only thinkg, subjectively, Christina has her beat in is The actual voice. I think Christina's affinity is virtuous which is what allowed her to achieve some pretty awesome feats while lacking the proper coordination. Her voice took quite a beating up until like 18 or so. Not entirely certain. But one thing is for certain, as bad as Christina was, Britney was just as awful. There's nothing technically sound about the way she sings or used to sing.
ReplyDeleteBrilliantly said. Although I have to board the reality that her voice has reached its peak and is steadily declining. There is time to save it if she chooses to sing healthily, but as long as she continues abusing that naturally amazing voice she has/had, it's base form will be merely nothing.
ReplyDeleteWell, we still have great voices. XD We mustn't give up hope. Even Rihanna's voice is distinct and at least something. I'm still waiting for the US release of Jessie J's second album.
ReplyDeleteI love me some Kelly SO DONT BE TELLIN ME I DONT KNOW ABOUT MY HOME GIRL!! lol. I know she has a great stage personality (Ive seen her live in concert once) but I wouldn't say it is Diva-ish. Shes much more funny/punk rocker than Diva and elegant.
ReplyDeleteI agree; if anything, I would classify her as a 'Rock Goddess' as opposed to a standard "Diva/Prima-Donna". LOL. Nevertheless, her and Beyonce' are, most certainly, the only Pop artists/vocalists of this generation of whom I wouldn't be afraid to apply the name "Diva" too, generally speaking of course, purely because of their vocal talent and magnetic/charismatic stage persona's - the 'class & elegance' aspect is neither here nor there.
ReplyDeleteYou can be a mezzo and still be considered lyrical. You'd just be called a lyric mezzo-soprano. But it's still kind of unfair because of the fact that Ariana is too much of a soprano in my opinion to be compared to Demi.
ReplyDeletethoughts on leona lewis?is she can be considered diva or not?
ReplyDeleteUm.. X-Factor came before American Idol. Simon brought the show to America to see if it would have a similar success.
ReplyDeleteI think Leith, you have a different interpretation of the word diva than most have.
ReplyDeleteOops posted too quickly. Forgot to add that my point here was that I personally would qualify neither Dionne or Kelly as 'diva" because they don't have that diva attitude in their professional lives.
ReplyDeleteNo, he is talking about the genre bluegrass.
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluegrass_music
That's what I mean. She never sings bluegrass nor do you hear bluegrass inf;uence in any of her music (understandably. Not really fitting her vocals I'd say) but she does sing what today passes for Country. And also I think covered some old Country?
ReplyDeleteIt also goes to attitude. A style.
ReplyDeleteIt's more the way every song is about Patti than any subject the words might indicate than the timbre which bothers me. Though that indeed sounds positively painful often.
ReplyDeleteIf I wasn't an atheist, I'd pray to god Miley NEVER patterns herself on Patti. Thankfully I don't need to go religious as Miley naturally is a singer who sings the song and not like Patti , the praises of herself. Praise The Big Bang!
ReplyDeleteCéline ,Mariah and Whitney the last 3 divas , before they there wasn't any female singer that deserves that title.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the whole thread it is clear that there is no consensus on the definition of ''diva".
ReplyDeleteHere's a novel idea...let's go with what the dictionary says...a famous and successful female singer. Hence..anybody we all heard of is a "diva" .
ROFL yeah you are right, there were no great singers prior to Whitney.
ReplyDeleteUhm first season in the US was in 2002, the original in the UK was aired in 2001. And seriously, I bet most people know Kelly won but few outside Britain know who the hell Will Young is. let alone the only other winner of the original show...Michelle macMannus.
ReplyDeleteI am pretty sure it was indeed the success of the American Idol show which lead to it being adopted by so many other nations as most first aired the show in 2003 or later.
Well, to be honest I have heard verr little of Patty so I'm not the one to talk about her, but I do have heard she likes too much to show off and getting all the attention. Anyway, the reason I have heard so little of her is indeed because of her timber. I usually find Dramatic and spintos to have a distasteful timber.
ReplyDeleteI completely forgot to mention the attitude, but I do think that's also a must to be a diva. However, those reasons I gave of why Kelly is not a diva are not my definition for diva at all, but just a few (in my opinion) requirements to get that status.
ReplyDeleteBTW I just realised that there's actually a singer called Dionne. At the very beginning I thought you were talking about Celine Dion haha
No, totally not, I'm spanish and I had no idea of what that means haha
ReplyDeleteThank you for explaining :)
ReplyDeleteI do think that Pink and Amy Lee are (or, better said, will be) divas. Pink is more of the classical rock diva I just described up there, while Amy's style points more towards the classic definition of diva Primo gave (Even though, when she's angry, she can get really blunt haha). Lzzy Hale from Halestorm has also that diva something IMO, and even though I have heard almost nothing about her, Haley Williams seems to be a diva for many other people.
ReplyDeleteThank you so much, that really did clear things up :D
ReplyDeleteI meant after* am sooo sorry lol ^^ None can deny the talent and diva status of Ms.Franklin, Streisand , etc
ReplyDeleteLOL You didn't know of Dionne Warwick? I'd hate to think what Patti would say about that! ;-)
ReplyDeleteBack when I first heard the term "diva" it was either referring to an opera singer or to a high maintenance type of woman. (or both at the same time LOL)
Personally, amongst female pop singers I think the only singers deserving of the title today are Christina and Mariah. They seem to have that "diva"personality.
But seeing as the dictionary nowadays adapted to the popular use for just any famous female singer. I guess anybody famous, female and singer qualifies.
I fail to see the point of the word in that case to be honest, if it is no longer used to distinguish a particular type of famous female singer, but ..there ya have it. ;-)
LOL Oh okay.
ReplyDeleteI am not saying at all that Demi can't be mad at her father? Where did I say that?
ReplyDeleteYou compared a song of a daughter who is disappointed in the lack of support her father gave her due to his alcoholism to a situation which carries a whole different dynamic. That's simply what I tried to point out.
There's all kinds of "mad". there's red hot spur of the moment mad, there's cold build up resentment mad, there's persistent mad, there's quick to come and quick to go mad. There's mad over what someone did to you, there's mad over what someone forced you to do...etc etc etc.
And I think the mad in that situation Demi describes is a different kind of mad than the one in a sibling relationship. For one thing, as a sibling you are not dependent for "survival" on your sister. As a child you are dependent for "survival" on your parents.
Also there are many ways to express "mad". I still say belting at the end of the tune is a very generic way.
Objectively speaking: HELL NO!!!
ReplyDeleteSubjectively speaking: Your opinion is all your own and if you, and some others, think she withholds the requirements to be a "Diva" then...
As I stated above, I personally think of Kelly to be more of a 'Rock Goddess' as opposed to a standard "Diva". LOL. However, she most certainly will go down as a Pop icon (and in that respect, a "Diva") purely because of her vocal talent and nothing else. I wish she would record more Rock, Hard-Rock, Heavy-Metal, Indie & Alternative-Rock- oriented material nonetheless; I would love for her to do an album that juxtaposed the sounds of Heart, Joan Jett, & Pat Benatar - with elements of Bon Jovi & Whitesnake etc. That would be incredible. LOL. She has stated that she wants to a standard Rock album sometime in the future. She also said that she would love to do a duet with Florence Welch. *Fingers Crossed*
ReplyDeleteYes, but Demi has all of the traits of a true pop soprano.. Ariana's voice is just really light compared to Demi's and has a very bright sound, which is why she seems more of a "Soprano" than Demi.
ReplyDeleteDemi is still a soprano. Her lower register is pretty weak even though it has gotten better and her voice brightens up. Not to mention she has hella endurance and always phrases in the fifth octave.
She's covered country, made country remixes of songs, and had a pop country song that her friends wrote for her engagement.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I wanted to get back to the generic topic because we totally went for the tangent. I want to ask you something, the singers you used to (and still) listen like Streisand, Sinatra, etc. and whose phrasing you do like, can be considered to have a generic phrasing for that time? Because I think it may not be that you don't like generic phrasing itself, but that you don't like the current generic phrasing.
ReplyDeleteIt's better to be blunt about things, rather than backhanded.
ReplyDeleteShe's very far from Mariah and Whitney, vocally, and artistically.
ReplyDeleteA few resonant high notes does not define a great singer and put them amongst the higher echelons of singing.
WELL SAID!
ReplyDeleteWith one exception: I think most people notice X flub now. Back in 99 (oh my, I feel old being able to remember that), she strained, but the note got out. Now, sometimes, it's just ???? >> <<
BUT it only happens on a few notes that most laypeople consider "impossible". Combine it with the gusto via questionable technique and you have a very commanding presence.
Lana Del Rey has a far, far worse technique (insofaras, lbr, she almost can't sing in pitch because her breathing and placement are off) and slayed the shit out of 2012. Why? That emotional quality.
Heck, even Adele really isn't that amazing. Her range, compared to most divas, is small, and she doesn't do much histrionic showcases.
A lot of time, its about emotion and tone. So long as you aren't so offkey as to cause alarm (Katy Perry), most people are fine with it.
I don't think she forces every aspect of her voice. A voice can be "light" and voluminous. Lara "lyric soprano" Fabian has an almost overpoweringly full tone. Of course, hers is through amazing (genius-level) technique-
-but if X forced/strained/shat as MUCH as some claimed, she'd be dead--from vocal cord hemmoraging and subsequent exanguination.
I'm not 100% sure belting is healthy yet. The way X does it isn't for sure--but all in all--it seems to be done differently in pop in such a fashion that does wear vocals quite a lot. Then you take interviews, partying, and other celebrity "musts" and even a "little damage" can become catastropic.
ReplyDeleteMost belters have semi-signigicant degradation over time with few notable exceptions. For some reason, it occurs early 30s for them. I think it's something you just must be trained to do properly (B)
I know but it's all modern Country what I heard her do. Though I do love the Vince Gill Duet. :-)
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcAecOpUi3k
No, neither Streisand nor Sinatra had for that time generic phrasing. That is why they were so great. Both had totally individual phrasing.
ReplyDeleteI don't think there is any scope for her to rescue her voice now. Unless, of course, she keeps taking those now-famous 2-year breaks of hers. Coupled with zero touring for several years.
ReplyDeleteWhy I say so? Think of it for a moment...ALL her material is written and sung with shitty technique (with few/obscure exceptions). In order to reproduce her most popular hits live she will have to continue to sing with raised larynx/in Kermit-the-frog voice. So she will have to keep going back to those bad habits. If she chooses to completely abandon her current style for healthy technique I'm afraid she'll lose lot of fans too.
And the irony of adopting a 'healthy' singing style will bite her back so hard! lo. Think of the mockery and damage it will cause her. She will be ridiculed like crazy worldwide. There is a reason these women don't ever come out in the open to discuss their vocal health/deterioration/technique.
Nor by the way does Kate Bush have for that time generic phrasing. Nor has Alison Krauss now.
ReplyDeleteEven so, I could overlook generic phrasing easily if it was accompanied by other qualities that surpass most fellow artists. But I am afraid I don't see much of that in Demi either. :-(
"I think most people notice X flub now. Back in 99 (oh my, I feel old being able to remember that), she strained, but the note got out. Now, sometimes, it's just ???? >> " Yeah.. In the last 4 years or so there have been quite a few occasions where her voice has cracked when belting (its always the belting). It was quite painful to listen to really. And oh god yes, she is way better than most of the women you mention in your post. And I feel that Christina uses her lower and higher registers with above average to 'good' technique mostly. You hardly hear her sound way off in her lower extremities and falsetto/head voice. Its the upper 4th and entire 5th Octave that's cursed. Heck, her entire belting range is just all sorts of wrong. There are rare exceptions her and there (there's a pretty health C5 in 'Say Something', if I'm not wrong. I'm awful in pitching :D). her signature 'sound' is the evil behind not encouraging her to mix, ever!
ReplyDelete"Lana Del Rey has a far, far worse technique (insofaras, lbr, she almost can't sing in pitch because her breathing and placement are off)" Haha. I love me some Lana! But I got to agree. You're spot on. Her live singing abilities are just SAD.
Lets not even go about Ms. Perry. :p She's a shameless creature.
god i just have to give this a thumbs up hahaha
ReplyDeleteCLASS
ReplyDeletewhy i've afeeling that she was referring to miley,demi and ariana as heifers
ReplyDeleteThat would depend on your definition of "Class".
ReplyDeletesomeone who acts high and majestic
ReplyDeleteI agree with what she said about the young generation of singers that are called divas and haven't earned it. I don't agree with her assumption that opera divas were way way back when. Since many famous opera singers that were called divas around the same time she was in her prime of her career. Besides a diva is an extremely talented singer that won't take what's less than expectable for her level of talent or expertise.
ReplyDeleteIn here Britney sings with the kind of tone that Christina was TRYING to sing with.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76pYZjhVylw
In here she shows her voice has some agility, good intonation and a naturally sweet and warm vocal color.
http://youtu.be/qRHFknA-JLU?t=22s
And here Britney belts out F#5 with complete ease.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GKxOlznLEA
So
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FOmG1-LBgs0/UVWyHpNa8FI/AAAAAAAAJZQ/yWrQQgcKpw0/s1600/naomilipstick1.gif
Not by much? She lost the upper middle belting, she can only produce a dry scream now. And she is going flat quite often nowadays.
ReplyDeleteAnd what genres has she sung that have actually required her to sing her singing style? LOL, singing loud and singing soft are NOT singing styles. When she can sing rock, ballads, flamenco, classical, gospel and pop with actually different vocal styles such as Monica Naranjo has done, let me know.
"it's about emotion an tone". Girl, you still trying?
ReplyDeleteEmotion and tone are the most basic ways to relate to music. Entirely subjective, as emotion is as much dependent on the listener and their willingness to receive as it is of the performer. And tone? entirely a matter of opinion.
And a rich tone =/= a big voice.
I said it before. If by 25 one hasn't learned how to sing in a healthy way, the voice ages really fast. But then you have people like Lara Fabian, Taylor Dayne, Patti Labelle, Mina and Monica Narano...whose vocal ability has only grown.
ReplyDelete....this didn't really show anything impressive, not even remotely lol I wouldn't say her agility is competent especially considering how light her voice naturally is. Her agility is limited. Christina's agility>hers. As for the timbre? Ehhh, some of it was unnatural. I did love the sound, though. The F#5? What was technically sound about that F#5? Her ease=thin and almost colourless. Yah, such superb placement. I know the point you're trying to make, I just think it's silly because Brittany is far from a technically sound singer. To shade Christina with someone who isn't even remotely good, it's ironic, you know?
ReplyDeleteFair enough, I guess lol
ReplyDeleteI guess. But the industry is just into these terrible singers lol If I'm going to be honest, these talent shows are a little lame. However, the only reason I watch them is because I know there are bound to be some great singers. If it wasn't for that I'd trash them lol
ReplyDeleteOhhh okay I see you haha! I don't necessarily know if the general def really captures elegant, although Ms Clarkson can be :)
ReplyDeleteKelly validated Idol. She became a global success, unlike WIll Young. She truly started the practicality of it.
ReplyDeletekelly has the voice, but it just doesn't feel right calling kelly a diva. i think it might be because of the connotation of the word. it feels very "sassy" and "fabulous," and those words really don't describe kelly very well. i think a good example of a contemporary diva is beyonce. excellent voice and is known for being fabulous as hell.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Fantasia, American idol really can give you a phenomenal music career as it gives you literally everything you need to be successful. Your level of success after the show is mainly a representation of your hard work and dedication. So the big stars that came out (Kelly, Carrie, Fantasia, J Hud, etc) really did werq for it and im betting kelly out of all of them has been working the hardest. She's basically been working nonstop for a decade and its really showing in her success.
ReplyDeleteIndeed. I think it's brilliant. You already start off with a Fan Base and it expands from there. Idol truly does give you all that you need. They all work hard. Who works harder? Tough to say. But Kelly, Carrie and Jennifer have really done their thing, especially Kelly and Jennifer. Jennifer played the HELL out of that role in Dream Girls. She certainly deserved that Ocsar! Despite not winning Idol, that didn't stop her in the slightest. That's a testament to how hard a worker Hudson is. And they couldn't have picked a better singer for the Role of Effy in Dream Girls. She most certainly had a voice beyond compare.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm so proud of Kelly. Kelly was EXTREMELY successful in 2013, I mean HONESTLY. All of the gigs she got, how well she did them. Winning another Grammy. Kelly was almost everywhere in 2013. SHe most certainly is a hard worker. And her Christmas album went 2+ times platinum. Kelly is the primary reason Idol is still relevant. Jennifer's success is also added into the flame as well as Carrie's. These 3 ladies are going to be around for a while. 2 of them I know for certain.
I know that a few high does not define a singer but Jonalyn's voice is AMAZING! Control, easy transition from each module of the voice, a bright, powerful and resonant vocal quality. Yeah, I can go on forever. However, I do agree, artistically, Jonalyn is like Regine; A vocal beast but also a very karaoke-type singer. Although I have a harder time listening to Regine compared to Jonalyn who infuses her own material into the songs she covers.
ReplyDeleteEh. I still think Demi is more of a Mezzo-Soprano. Her lower register isn't weak, it's just not practiced as much. The notes produced are much more supported than Ariana's. Ariana's are only use with better technique so she can reach them but it's not within a range that's comfortable for her. Demi's are more comfortable, but she hasn't had the training Ariana has had, so her notes just sound like they're bad when really she just needs some training and her notes would be much more supported than Ariana's. And the fifth octave for Demi seems to only be accessible via belting. Just because you can belt a note in the fifth octave doesn't make you a Soprano. Unless she can hit notes higher or hit the notes she belts with out having to belt I won't be unconvinced.
ReplyDeleteI won't really comment much on Regine, I personally find her terrible with a few good moments. I will however say that Jonalyn is leagues above Regine, her top notes are far more open, and her vocals are far more original. But, Jonalyn does not transition easily from each register, any attempts to go into the lower chest voice = choked air, and her whistle is very shaky. She has a lot of things over Regine though, as I mentioned earlier, her top notes are far more open, and she utilizes a connected head voice.
ReplyDeleteIf you're wondering why I don't think Regine's a good singer, here's one of my many possible answers : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2Pjnl_XJ0g
Yah, that was a shaky ass performance. But Regine definitely has one of the best voices, MUCH better than Beyonce, that's for damn certain. There's absolutely NO competition when you're measuring their voices. Her renditions of I Don't Wanna Miss a Thing/What Kind of Fool I Am are top tier. She could've delivered things in a more technically sound way but the voice itself was always virtuous enough to sail her through the songs and do them well with PHENOMENAL climaxes. Jonalyn's upper notes technically are accessed better in terms of placement & control, but her level of technicality isn't enough (for me) to put her over Regine. But you should listen to those 2 performances. She really has an extraordinary voice.
ReplyDeleteIt's not the fact that she belts in the fifth octave, it's the fact that she constantly PHRASES in the fifth octave. That Get Back video I posted is an awesome example. She phrased belted F5s continuously. Not too mention she hit a G5 pretty easily with head voice in that performance as well. The fact that she belts instead of using HV/False is mostly artistic -- listen to My Love is Like a Star. She phrases in the fifth and even hits the sixth octave with head voice and vocal runs & melisma.
ReplyDeleteAs for lows, yeah they're better than the usual female. And when comparing them to Ariana, they're miles better. She attempts them, but you can't deny that they're pretty weak relative to the rest of her voice. She constantly uses her lower third octaves notes though in most of her songs, and regardless if they're used, they're merely hits and usually not that resonant unfortunately (the C#3 in Neon Lights is an exception).
Her voice is bright enough and dark enough for a soprano. Her tessitura also SCREAMS soprano (probably from A4 - E5 is where she's most comfortable).
I don't know too much about voice types, so I'm not gonna go in anymore detail. What I do know is that she's a soprano. If she was a mezzo, she would be a pretty high one (similar to a Beyonce) and that couldn't possibly be the case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aB0COpSDeU
ReplyDeleteTHIS is a real vocalist here and leagues above Regine. The difference is like the difference between heaven and earth. Yes, Jonalyn has a weak lower register but I still prefer Jonalyn. :D
I define "class" differently...refined and tasteful.
ReplyDeletehere's an example Leith. Two versions of "close to you" followed by how Streisand sang it..
ReplyDeleteThe most famous one by The Carpenters of course
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6inwzOooXRU
By the most famous Burt Bacharach covers singer Dionne Warwick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNZJMYYaVE0
And by Streisand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52jkbJrTwBw
You cannot seriously be talking about thin, colorless belting and then turn around and praise Regine Velasquez.
ReplyDeleteAgility is not just shaking the larynx fast, but actually moving swiftly in the CORRECT NOTES. That's what distinguishes someone (in the classical world) like Diana Damrau from a Joan Sutherland or Lucia Popp or Beverly Sills.
Exactly. Refined and Tasteful convey Majesty, no need for extravagance.
ReplyDeleteAdam Lambert is campy, not Diva.
ReplyDeleteYes, absolutely, those are all Divas. Though I think Joan Sutherland was only a Diva on stage due to her vocal ability, because out of the stage she was a thick country girl as unrefined as it gets. It was Franco Zeffirelli who transformed her into a goddess during the production of "Lucia di Lammermoor", but her gay husband Richard Bonynge saw her as his own personal avatar/Barbie doll and often made her wear the most drag queenish outfits, just dreadful.
ReplyDeleteMajestic is usually described as big and impressive, grant. Refined and tasteful are the opposite. Subtle and small and free of pomp and circumstance.
ReplyDeleteThat's a tough one! Demi outshines her generation's Disney divas by a landslide. I do like Ariana Grande too, but I feel she's not quite there yet. Ariana is not very original to me her voice mimics Mariah and she's really not been around long enough. Demi wins on originality, but vocally, I have to say Ariana is better. She's chosen a good vocal model to follow but she literally seems to shadow Mariah, to where it's kind of frightening. Give Ariana time to grow, and her voice will begin to form it's own character. As for Demi, she's in that tough time of transition from teen oriented music to more adult themes, although she handles it with 100x the grace that Miley does, that woman is on a path for a Britney breakdown. So, I'd say Ariana is the better singer, but she has a long way to go. And if she handles herself properly, she could become the next generation's Mariah Carey, but with her own character that she's yet to realize. But, they're both good, overall.
ReplyDeleteBelting into a higher octave isn't hard because you're using enough air to support that note like how you're supporting it. Ariana can belt into an A6, which Demi can't do which furthers my point of her not being a Soprano, because if she was, she would probably be able to belt into her 6th octave. And I know Ariana's range is a lot more flexible than Demi's and she's hard more training, but I've seen a lot of live performances of Demi's, and her belted notes in the fifth octave don't seem as supported as Ariana's, which again furthers my point of her not being a soprano. Her belted notes aren't as supported as Ariana's, and even though Demi belts in that register a lot, doesn't mean that she's a soprano. A lot of artists belt in their upper register because when you're using that much air, it's not hard to produce a note loudly. There's a fine difference between belting a note, and then being able to sing a note. To sing a note, you need to be able to support it in multiple dynamics, and to belt a note you just support it with a lot of air and your diaphragm, making it loud and controlled sounding, but that's why people belt high notes all the time because it's basically like controlled screaming. And high notes in head voice are easy, as you change from chest voice to head voice at any note above a C4. Head voice high notes are nothing special. If Demi's higher notes weren't belted all the time or used in head voice, I would be convinced but like I said earlier, belting or phrasing in your higher register doesn't make you a Soprano.
ReplyDeleteOh my gosh, I'm gonna FLIP LOL.
ReplyDeleteNeither can belt an A6. Now, some part of the world have different notations, so an A6 to you could be an A5 to me, and if that's the case then BOTH can belt that note LIVE. If you're not corresponding your A6 to an A5, then NEITHER can belt that high. So far, Demi and Ariana can't belt into the sixth octave, and quite frankly, not many singers can. Belting an A6 is INCREDIBLY difficult and takes probably as much technicality and skill anyone can muster. Due to that, belting in the sixth octave DOESN'T make you a soprano. If you go by that logic then Mariah Carey isn't a soprano, and nor is Tiffany Evans, or Lea Michelle when all three have obvious soprano voices.
I also don't know what live performances you've been watching, but Demi's belts are a lot more resonant and powerful than Ariana's. Her mix has a nicer balance which gives her a rounder and chestier belt than her counterpart. Ariana, I will give her grace. Her upper belts have gotten better and now her F#5 and higher are pretty supported, but most under that is too heady and breathy.
People scream when they try and belt, i.e. Miley Cyrus, but it's not the same. THAT'S screaming. Belting is what you said -- pushing from the diaphragm to get a nice, round and resonant sound. Screaming is not nice, pure and round...it's screechy, even when "controlled." (Not too sure if that's possible).
Demi has been culprit of scream-singing when she was younger because of her lack of training and experience -- but she;s gotten better. She BELTS and is probably one of the strongest belters of the next generation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wYTXAKPyj0
How does using excessive HV make you a soprano? Xtina is suspect. That woman used to rape the ishhh out of her head voice and falsetto and she's a mezzo soprano by far. Using HV / Falsetto is generally an artistic choice. If you've listened to Demi, you would know her music is punk rocky; generally, HV isn't used in rock. Her Unbroken album was more R&B and head voice was used there, and that's where My Love is Like a Star's C#6 came in.
Not too mention she has hit an E6 and Eb6 in head voice before.
I don't know how to explain this anymore lol.
Please
@Sasuke Uchiha
@Black Robin
@Leith