Is it wrong that I can't hear Lea Michele's voice without my mind immediately concocting some Glee scenario- starring her character Rachel- to accompany it? For instance, listening to new song Battlefield, I immediately pictured the Diva in the Glee music room, facing her classmates, singing it with moist eyes, gesticulating arms and planted legs, while the camera circled slowly around her (something kinda like this). Just me then?
Anyway, Battlefields is actually sitting right with me on first listen, with its simplicity working greatly in its favor. Lea doesn't need a full on production to rouse, or elicit an emotional response from this listener - perhaps due to her clear annunciation and acting chops- so its nice to not have too much distraction going on in the track. The wailing Sia backing vocals- she wrote the track- that ghost the song, but really comes in at 3.30, were also doing good things to me.
(Mental note: must do that pesky Sia vocal profile!!)
Thoughts?
I got mixed feelings from the song. It doesn't sound too theatrical like I was expecting. I wanna like the song but my dislike of Lea Michele is getting in the way. As far as lyrics, I find it very hard to be content when I know Sia wrote it. I know Sia writes decent music but...IDK....it doesn't feel genuine and as a result, I don't feel any emotion.
ReplyDeleteI also like the new backing DD for the site.
1) Well, it would be fantastic if I were to hear her sing "Vision of Love/Love Takes Time/Someday/I Don't Wanna Cry/Anytime You Need A Friend/Butterfly/My All/Can't Take That Away' etc. - sometime in the near future, but we all know that isn't going to happen.
ReplyDelete2) "Fantasy/Always Be My Baby/Honey" are, and always will be, 'Pop/R&B/Hip-Hop' perfection and are three of my many favorite songs from the '90's. (O.D.B IS A BOSS)
3) I still consider "The Art of Letting Go" to be a 'Minimalist- Spoken Word Poem' with a melody; a VERY boring song but the lyrics are astounding and she sings/speaks it with control and conviction.
4) As for her voice, I don't know what to say to anymore. She sounded... Better.
That is all.
@Coleman U got that line about Letting Go being "spoken word..." from TGJ lol. But why do you think she's talking it and not singing it? If anything it's a little wordy, but it's still very much a "song" in the classic definition of the word "song".
ReplyDeleteYes, she is a very talented- technical singer but her vocals do absolutely NOTHING for me - AT ALL - especially when it's placed within a 'Contemporary- Pop/Rock' setting and from an emotional standpoint. I've always thought that she was, and is, nothing more than the female counter-part of Josh Groban or Micheal Buble.
ReplyDeleteBy and large, her voice belongs within the 'Theatre/Broadway/Traditional-Pop' genre's/styles primarily. In my opinion, Celine Dion is an example of a mainstream artist/singer of whom had a very classical- driven voice but, somehow, managed to find that perfect balance of modern- vocal versatility, of which made her much more marketable, but I don't think Lea is capable of doing the same. Even Barbra Streisand was able to add more raw nuances & expressions to her vocalizations - 'Guilty/No More Tears/Woman In Love' etc.
Also, these songs that she is being given as of late are so underwhelming. She needs much stronger, A.C- oriented, material than this as well as a heavier promotional push if she wants to sell records. It's a nice song but isn't exactly thrilling either.
LOL. Yes - Alex
ReplyDeleteIn some parts where her rasp comes in I just want to walk up to her and make her cough up whatever is stuck in her throat into a tissue so that I can set it on fire. She still sounds good (to me anyways) she just has some congestion in her throat ALL THE TIME. And her placement is way more nasal than it needs to be.
ReplyDeleteShe did a pretty good glimpse of Vision of Love back in 012 on AI. <:)
ReplyDeleteJane Lynch, I adore her
ReplyDeleteI'm just completely gonna ignore wether this is live or not. I thought she sounded good, better than I thought she would sound. Loved the Fantasy-bit :). Looking forward to her new single on valentine's day.
Oh and kudos to the background-dancers, they were really good, but not as fine as the ones on GMA. Sorry not sorry.
Well... "That Dress" was typical- "Modern Mariah".
ReplyDeleteShe's been wearing 'those dresses' ever since her 1997- emancipation from Tommy Mottolla.
LOL.
I know but shes done Freezing cold shows with more covered up than this...does she want her tits to freeze off?
ReplyDeleteI'm sure most of this was live and dubbed over. The only prerecorded parts that sounded to me were honey. I don't think she could ever pull off that song even when it came out in the late 90's. Anyone found undubbed versions yet?
ReplyDeleteI wanna like the song because I love Lea, but I simply don't feel it. I've had some serious chills when listening to Lea sing in Glee (Without you, It's all coming back to me now, Take a Bow, To love you more...) but for some reason this song fails to get me, and same with Cannonball. Part of that is because of the lyrics, I think these are not the best songs Sia has written, but it's undeniable that Lea has most of the blame. I'm quite deceived, but I hope that If You Say So (The song she and Sia wrote for Corey) will make up for it.
ReplyDeleteI'm reaally doing my best to like the song cause it's Lea duh, but it just doesn't work. It's kind of boring and seems desultory. The verse and the instrumentation are great but there's no depth... sorry lea-boo
ReplyDeleteAt least it's not as bad as Canonball
I dont want to cry, anytime you need a friend is so demanding vocally. I cant see her every singing those songs possibly Anytime you need a friend because she she tends to do do her best with her gospel songs. Any of those other songs I think the most well ever get is a snippet out of a melody.
ReplyDeleteI think these were really good performances,er belt and had a little rasp, and to think the conditions, she has been doing a lot of singing outside in the cold lately.
ReplyDeleteHer voice (tone and texture) is is starting to sound a lot like Coko's the lead vocalist of SWV's? Especially in the Art of letting go. Coko;s voice has gotten deeper and huskier over the years as Mariah, but unlike Mariah, her belts have gotten much stronger than the beginning of her career.
I know. Every one of those aforementioned songs are far TOO vocally demanding for her now especially when judging by the power, control & fluidity they require in her mid/upper-register - particularly within that of the 'C#5 - F#5' region - something of which she can no longer sustain properly, post- D5, unless she is very well rested. I think the only songs/ballads she could sing from her classic era, if she REALLY tried, would be 'Vision Of Love, Someday and Without You'. Also, she just may be able to sing 'Butterfly & Can't Take That Away' seeing that they are, largely, sung in a breathy tone with her climaxing into full- chest/mixed voice on the bridge's/last chorus' and the highest notes being 'F5/F#5' of which are hit via. fast vocal riffs. 'Through the Rain' is a possibility aswell.
ReplyDeleteLOL. I think so...
ReplyDeleteLove it. Although most have either given it a negative or mixed review, I will give it a positive review. The song is simple, the lyrics are invoking, and Sia's ingredient for a wonderful song shines through. The repetitiveness of the song is actually what makes this so endearing to me. What the repetitiveness invokes is the emotion of sorrow and the dark relationship. With Lea's Broadway honed voice, she makes the song more compelling. That ghastly background done by Sia further allows the song to improvise on the dark relationship. Yes. Although I do love Lea, I actually want to hear Sia cover this. By far, Sia is one of the best writers of this decade.
ReplyDeleteC3-Bb5, and the lows, though not particularly weighty, DO have substance to them that one wouldn't expect from a soprano. *sighs* The vocal fach system needs a serious reboot sometimes...
ReplyDeleteI was listening to 'I Dont Want To Cry' live yesterday That song showed she has dramatic soprano capabilities.(you can here 4 different voice textures and tones in that song. that's only something Mariah can do.) The verses were sung in D3 back then when her lower range was heavier darker and fuller, Not sure how solid her lower range is today since we don't get to hear it. When she sang 'You and I' in 03' it was in good shape, just thinner with a bit of rasp nut that was decade ago.
ReplyDeleteI'll have to listen to her lows carefully when i get the chance.
ReplyDeleteI watched a hilarious interview she did back in 2008 maybe with Alan Carr, you guys should check it out :)
ReplyDelete"I Don't Wanna Cry" is my 2nd favorite ballad of hers, after 'Anytime You Need A Friend', in her entire discography. Her voice between 1990 - 1993 was extremely 'Rich & Resonant' and I think this is highlighted on her 'Mariah Carey & Emotions' album. Albeit she is a well-rounded 'Light- Lyric Soprano' but she sounded very much akin to that of Full- Lyric/Spinto during her early years, her vocals were very good at handling dramatic climaxes then - 'If It's Over, Can't Let Go & Make It Happen' for instance. Personally speaking, I think Mariah may have suffered a vocal hemorrhage, which worsened her nodules, somewhere between 1994 - 1996 because her voice has never been the same since 1997. I think there's something else to her voice that she hasn't shared publicly.
ReplyDeleteAlso, she did once say that she tries to stay away from songs in her early years because they "don't reflect her true sense of artistry" but I think that's either because she knows she cannot sing the songs or she genuinely dislikes a few of them.
Lincolnshire Posy? That's by Grainger, right? I would call that classical...just not Classical.
ReplyDeleteUGH, I just hate people who instantly assume that a singer is lesser because of the genre they sing. It's about as dumb as saying that Hayley Williams isn't as good as Demi Lovato because Hayley sticks to pure pop punk instead of pop rock.
Oh Mariah...I think that they filmed the American Idol takes, but sometimes didn't use the correct audio? I dunno - it was terrible editing. Also, the New Year's Eve performances have been uploaded. Honestly? I think she sang most of it live.
Try Chicago in February. Everything's cold, wet, and slippery. At least in Georgia, you guys have a somewhat nicer climate during the winter months.
She's adding a lot of unnecessary creaking that doesn't fit with the song. I guess she's done playing the poor man's Idina Menzel now, and is going to try her hand at being an amateur pop princess.
ReplyDeleteHer voice is nice but very generic, does nothing for me.
The song is gorgeous, but it's not Sia's best effort.
Ending of The Art of Charting Low is lipped fo' sho. Don't think *much* of the medley was dubbed or lipped, seeing as her voice was sort of struggling and raspy throughout, and in shreds by the end
ReplyDeleteNew single valentines day though... so excited.
OK she started lipping in The Art of Letting Go around the second verse and all the way through the climax till the end. Aren't there any real live performances of this song?
ReplyDeleteHey, I really wanna improve and expand my musicanship and virtuosity. But I have no idea on how to do that, do you have any tips, ideas?
ReplyDeleteThat is not a stupid question but an incredibly hard to answer one, one that has multiple answers. I'm comfortable with any genres with practice because I know what makes my voice tick. I know every nook and crany in the important part of my voice and I know how to sing with a variety of different textures. I can't decide which is the most important aspect so I'll just list them.
ReplyDelete1. Enunciation. Different genres require different types of enunciation because it allows for an easier vocal style.
2. Perfect color. You gotta know how to balance out the nasality for particular genres and moods. Remember, nasality is the main influence in tone.
3. Singing with grit. This is one that is particularly important to me because I can sing with grit all the way up the scale and it suits my voice considering my stamina. But, I've went through days of ripping my voice to shreds learning how to sing healthily with grit. I don't know how to teach someone to sing with grit and no one has been able so show me so I got it with practice.
4. Singing plenty of genres. Practice makes perfect, you know. I sing anything from throaty gospel to the soft sweet indie style of Kimbra and Lana Del Rey. I'm always practicing this because each genre has its challenge to overcome.
5. Learn every inch of your voice. IMHO, that is the most important aspect. You gotta know your limits and your strengths. My strength is my elastic belting range but my limit is my head voice. Considering I can belt countless G5s on a good day, I'd expect my voice to have a bit more ease in HV over C6. Know those cake regions like the back of your hand. It all helps.
Hope this was good enough advice. I'm in the movie theater and I really wanted to respond as soon as I saw it, so.....lol...
Thanks, that was really helpful :)
ReplyDeleteI keep on thinking that experts should create new sub-categories for modern singing. The three basic ones are nice, but the sub-categories are often hard to extrapolate to modern singing.
ReplyDeleteWhat exactly do you mean with enunciation? Can you give me some examples? And the perfect color, is it solely based on nasality or can you influence it with something else? And what do you mean by grit?
ReplyDeleteYeah it's by Percy Granger.
ReplyDeleteHaha I lived in Chicago for three years, so I understand what you go through during the winter. It's not helping that this winter is like 10% colder than usual.
LOL Georgia and nice climate? It's either Africa or Antarctica, literally. No in between. I remember one time it snowed for about 2 hours on a school day, then the Sun came out and it heated up to the 70s. That's the southeast for ya.
I can't even deal with the first sentence.
ReplyDeleteI hope she gets the rest she so desperately needs. Maybe that gel thing will be finished soon an help her.
ReplyDeleteHow you enunciate is how you sing words to carry an emotive property. It is different from phrasing because phrasing is about structure and clarity. There are tons of examples of different enunciation for different genres. But a prime example is those glee singers. They can enunciate theatrically and turn around and sing a pop song with enunciation similar to the original singer...Except that boy who was singing that Marina Diamandis song... its a blur but I recall it being terrible.
ReplyDeleteNot only does nasality influence color but placement and point of resonance does to. it sounds complicated but if you place your voice healthily, you can learn to darken your voice by rolling your larynx to do distended falsetto/modal mix or lighten your voice by the same means. Hell you can even lighten your voice by using excess nasality. The possibilities are endless. Janelle Monae's entire Electric Lady album showcases her use of darkening and lightening her tone through a use of nasality or a lack their of.
Grit, is growling, all the emotive stringy-type, raspy stuff. Now my favorite example of this is Deap Vally's "Baby I call hell".
Mind you, the lead singer is a light-lyric soprano with some lovely, lovely, grit. I love covering this song... But this performance is only "decent"...I'm only using it for an example. LOL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUXVi3l-GUg
Which one is which...They look the same... LOL.
ReplyDeleteThanks a lot :)
ReplyDeleteThe more I read all those discussions about technique and singing in general, the more I realize how much of a bloody beginner I actually am lol
I was there last year...LOL....
ReplyDeleteAnd how did you get here in 1 year? It seems extremely short
ReplyDeleteA lot of this stuff is kinda like puzzle pieces and when you have nice people here to teach you stuff and guide you through your mistakes, you learn quickly.
ReplyDeleteOk, I got a question...Someone just asked me was this a coloratura contralto and I'm at a loss for words...this is amazing!!!!!! ROFL!!!!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejp9DGa6HtY
It'd be more confusion IMHO. LOL. These categories already are broad enough to encompass a lot and all it takes is a good ear which I'm still developing. I don't wanna be any more confused than what I am. LOLOL. Bless my poor soul.
ReplyDeletePretty sure that someone wasn't serious at all lol That man kinda puts me off with his voice.
ReplyDeleteOh well I kinda feel like I'm reading all those expert tips and tricks while there isn't even a solid foundation.
Question: Do you have absolute pitch?
No but I do have a very good sense of it these days.
ReplyDeleteLol, you got me confused a bit.
ReplyDeleteOh oh one last question and I'll stop haha. I'm in a band and we often have gigs where we have to play more than 6 songs in a row. For that you need a pretty good stamina obviously. How can I improve my stamina?
ReplyDeleteLol get prepared for another long winded response. Wait.....You're in a band???? I'm so jealous....
ReplyDeleteBut lightening your voice, placing it properly improves stamina. The higher you go, go for a more nasal placement and make sure you don't open your mouth, too too wide. Keep your mouth in the awwwww shape. Also, stay away from your mid-passagio and those dreaded eeee vowels.
I am. We do Rock kind of stuff like Kiss, Journey, The Police, but not Queen sadly :( But yeah there are mostly songs that demand powerhouse vocals and that's why I could only focus on my belts really and not much the falsetto (except for "I Was Made For Loving You", although it's not actually pure falsetto is it). Also there's a huge difference between the band's music and mine. I wanna go a different way.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I'm digressing from the main subject. Thanks for everything :)
I agree 100% 1990-1993 was her greatest and I personally consider her prime. Others would argue 1994-1996 was her prime. For me personally I felt her voice got thinner, lost some of it richness and didn't have that multi tones that was heard in Mariah Carey & Emotions. But she still showed she had some of the same resonance in Music Box with 'Anytime You Need a Friend' and 'my #2 favorite, 'Everything Fades Away'. I was wrong when I said dramatic, spinto would have been better description.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what happened in 1993 to that caused the first major change. Then 1994-96. the major damage happened.. Your probably right about the vocal hemorrhage I cant think of any other issue that would cause that kind of damage. I too think theres something else about her cords, some situation of sorts that she has kept secret. Ive heard rumors that she had a secret surgery and that caused the damage. But I dont think thats what it is. Maybe she will share with is in her book.
That does sound like something she would say about her artistry but considering she has been writing her songs and doing much of the arrangements I dont know if thats the case. I do get songs like 'Vision Of Love' is may seem out of touch since its over 24 years old know. But at her concert goers are mostly fans and fans seem to like 'Vision Of Love". I did see an interview in 2003 where she said people just want to see her belt and that she finds in boring. I think that's more because she now struggles with her belts but I could be wrong..Because she clearly still adds them in her new material. .
What kinda music do you wanna make?
ReplyDeleteI'm really into Soul, Funk and Blues, maybe a little RnB (I don't really dig the idea of males overutilising their falsetto e.g. Jason Derulo, Justin Timberlake, Kim Cesarion etc.) That would be the ultimate genre but I'm not quite sure if I have the pipes for it, so I'll keep searching for the right genre
ReplyDeleteWhat would you call your niche/genre?
Soul and rock. Blues too... I love reggae and RnB but Soul and rock show off my voice the best.
ReplyDeleteInteresting, I really liked you singing reggae :)
ReplyDeleteAbout 4 of the songs on my EP will be reggae... "Serial wishing", "stole by a crook", "what they know", and "no judgement zone". The rest are either soul or soul and rock fusion.
ReplyDeleteYour song titles all sound so interesting and unconventional, I especially loved serial wishing :)
ReplyDeleteI think BlackRobin is incorrect in his definitions there. This is imo a pretty good explanation of phrasing.
ReplyDeleteEnunciation goes to speech and articulating properly. And anyway he seems to confuse enunciation with elocution. Which again goes to speech, not music.
"
Phrasing refers to an expressive shaping of music, and relates to
the shaping of notes in time. Phrasing relates to the manner of playing
the individual notes of a particular group of consecutive notes; and the way they are weighted and shaped relative to one another. It does not refer to the idealised note values/durations
as represented in sheet music; but to the multitude of deviations that
the performer needs to make from sheet music, if a performance is to be
expressive, in a particular style and culturally aware. An example may
be an acceleration of a group of notes, but there are many more. This
shaping of notes is creatively performed by the musician with the aim of
expressing (feelings), and can be distinguished by the listener - not
only factually, but in music, as emotional expression. "
Serial wishing was about putting forth an honest effort in a relationship but it failing due to a lack of communication and chemistry.
ReplyDeleteStole by a crook is the followup to it, saying that we might not work out but lets have sex one last time before we say our goodbyes for good. And since we've been having a lack of chemistry and communication, a certain somebody has been filling your spot...LOL. (I set it up so it paints a gorgeous story)
What they know is the prequel to both Stole by a crook and serial wishing, talking about how people judge you but when you find true love, they can't be happy for you.
No judgement zone is a very abrasive song, talking about why us gays need to stick together and not tear one another down...but lyrically, I set it up so that it can apply to anyone who falls under the "outcast" stigma.
And you set all those stories up?
ReplyDeleteYeah, I would send you the lyrics but that'd be a hassle for me.
ReplyDeleteOh thanks Opie. But could you please explain what elocution means? :)
ReplyDeleteI am swiss, eat your words ! hahahahaha
ReplyDeleteOh, then you must like Rilke too, He's my favourite german writer. And what's your favourite piece of Goethe?
Well to each his own, right? :)
Thanks Opie. I apologize!
ReplyDeleteThey sound very different though
ReplyDeleteI think elocution is how you make a speech, the way you put emphasis on certain words and phrases, the rhythm you put in the speech.
ReplyDeleteLike (strange as it is to put those names together) Hitler and Martin Luther King were masters at that. hey both could rouse a crowd by the way the spoke.
No problem Black Robin. Just thought...for the sake of clarity. :-)
ReplyDeleteAretha is a Falcon. Not this girl :)
ReplyDeleteA falcon is the half way between spinto soprano and lyric mezzo soprano. That is, a lyric mezzo tessitura with the power of a spinto and the extended top of a heavier soprano (up to C#6 or D6).
Lol, I listen to neither and have the slightest idea of what their voices sound like.
ReplyDeleteNot really. What happens is that the fach system is intended for TRAINED and UN-AMPLIFIED voices. With microphones we add a bunch of notes we do not have without artificial amplification, and we also have a bunch of notes that can be sung in any way not needing to be beautiful or connected. That's why in operatic singing a true 3 octave range fully supported is rarer than a 5 octave range in pop music (which can be with growled and weak low notes and weak whistle tones on top).
ReplyDeleteLOL I am afraid you are confusing Danish with Dutch there de Loo is Dutch (the Netherlands), the others are Danish (Denmark).
ReplyDeleteNot sure why I should eat my words though? I stand by them still.
Rilke I never read, Goethe is too long ago but my favorite work in German is Nietzsche's Also Sprach Zarathustra.
Presumptuously assuming the role of "teacher" for a second Natsu...I don't think "ghastly" is the word you want to use unless you intended a negative charge?
ReplyDeletePerhaps it is just a spelling error and you meant ghostly though?
Speaking of that, I attempted to do a scale across three octaves on one breath and was successful. IDK if it is flawed or not but it felt fine to me going from low to high, and I felt at ease on every note except the region between G4 and A#4, but it was nothing major. I should have turned the gain down on my mic a bit more because it did distort between F4-E5. Also, I showed the most size between C#5-E5. What are your thoughts? LOL, be gentle...this singing style is not my cup of tea and I was out my comfort zone.
ReplyDeletehttps://soundcloud.com/black-robin/g2-g5
Yeah. I was working on my team for Pokemon Y and I was training a Ghastly so I just caught up in that. :D
ReplyDeleteLOL That was not a possible reason which ever would have entered my theorizing on why you used "ghastly".
ReplyDeleteMega-Gengar is just so overpower...
ReplyDeleteAmy Lee is the first one, Charlotte Church is the second one.
ReplyDeletehahaha best comment ever
ReplyDeleteshe sounded fine here yes there was some parts that displayed THE STRUGGLE
ReplyDeletebut honestly can any of the modern day divas today that are ruling the charts sing any of mariah's songs??? NOPE because they're too difficult even for the mariah of today
it truly is a testament to her talent though that her music has stood the test of time and still mariah continues to be relevant in today's music landscape
the medley brings back memories
Still, more intermediary voice types would be a good thing. There's going to be women who can sing both mezzo and soprano roles, and not every one of those is going to be a Falcon, Dugazon, or a Soprano sfogato (which would be kind of interesting).
ReplyDeleteI have rarely EVER heard a singer who can get even two controlled octaves in a full, operatic voice, but then, I'm most familiar with collegiate-level singers. For me, personally, I can pull around 3 octaves operatically, but then, I have a freak voice.
That's why I say: more intermediary types.
ReplyDeleteHmm...can I assume that you were/are in band or orchestra? Grainger is one of those composers that tends to linger in the offices of band directors, waiting...and plotting...
ReplyDeleteI've only ever driven through Georgia, and I don't mean to be cruel, but...your state...I didn't like it.
I mean, Atlanta was pretty cool, but the rest...it's like I expected to see swamp people emerge from the background. I'm not trying to offend, but why would you ever EVER leave Chicago? We have culture here!
Now, another question from the back of my head: have you ever listened to The Brobecks/do you know who Dallon Weekes is?
Both are good singers. Amy Lee has a rich lyric soprano voice
ReplyDeleteAnd Charlotte Church has a light-lyric soprano voice. I think Charlotte Church has great versatility, she has shown she can sing in a classical style, completely pop and belting styles, rock/punk styles, African American gospel inflections, country twang, etc.
You find those voices dark? Not very much...
ReplyDeleteSure, they are darker than say...Kylie Minogue or Michael Jackson...but a voice like Nicole's lacks the womanly core of a rich soprano voice like Lara Fabian, and I would say there's nothing baritonal about Joshua Ledet's voice, I would call it a standard lyric tenor sound...and I must add I absolutely HATE his style of singing, it sounds like he is about to throw up, it's revolting.
Soprano di grazia? That would be coloratura soprano :)
ReplyDeleteOr a soubrette. But soubrettes are known for their light weight and limited range.
I think your idea of dark and my idea of dark are very different :P
ReplyDeleteI find all those male voices very tenorish, actually. Very standard tenor sound. Real tenor, that is...not the wannabe alto of all the Michael/Stevie emulators.
That's the problem with pop music...women sing in alto, male sing in alto, everybody sings in the same limited range. I wouldn't say they have "weighty" middle voices either, I am not sure they could really project their middle voices very much without a microphone.
Anyway, I think Michael Bolton is a good example of a spinto tenor voice in pop. He also had a high falsetto extension back in the day - In fact, Mariah in her beginnings was called "the female Michael Bolton" for her use of the upper register like Michael Bolton used his falsetto.
Well, back in the day, before the fach system, people just sang what they sang...whatever suited their voices best. Some spinto sopranos (such as Leontyne Price) do a good job singing high mezzo soprano roles (such as the opera "Carmen") and light-lyric/bordering on coloratura roles (such as the role of Gilda in the opera "Rigoletto"). Some high mezzo sopranos such as Agnes Baltsa do a good job singing dramatic soprano roles such as Queen Elizabeth (in the opera Maria Stuarda) and even some roles with Assoluta characteristics (such as Maria Stuarda in that opera). though it is not a full assoluta role.
ReplyDeleteBut the fach system exists not only to classify voices, but because each character is better identified with a particular vocal color. It's like in a Disney movie...if you reverse the voices of Ursula and Ariel, the whole movie would be very strange...same with opera; light, agile, high voices are associated with innocence and sweet romantic feelings, fuller/richer sounds with deeper romantic characters, big and metallic voices with heroic characters, darker voices with maturity, lower voices with power (good or bad), etc.
My operatic range is also 3 octaves, I'd say I can consistently project a G2 and I can sing up to G5 or G#5 before it gets more screamy.
I'd say there's lots of promise, and certainly a good instrument. But if you want harsher criticism, the low notes are growly vocal fry and as the voice goes higher it spreads and spreads till it's colorless instead of remaining smooth and elegant. All those things are things one learns over time though, but it's a good instrument to begin working with :)
ReplyDeleteAt times the texture her voice is taking makes me cringe, sounds so dry and tired. I really hope she gets help with her vocal issues :/ I love her singing and I hope she can regain her former vocal glory.
ReplyDeleteAll in all, I personally think what ultimately damaged Mariah's voice (and probably brought on her vocal hemorrhage) was when she started [aggressively] utilizing her self-proclaimed "whisper register" around 1994/5 to which she, slowly yet unknowingly, gave her nodules additional problems that presented itself thoroughly circa. 1997. When you constrict your vocal folds and begin talking normally, it would generally sound like you're whispering; so the fact that Mariah uses this "whisper register" so much means she had begun constricting her head voice too as well as her lower & upper registers and giving her mid-register an unbalanced sound. Furthermore, the only part of her voice where she doesn't constrict is her lower register, which is unfortunately where she suffers from a misplaced larynx and so when combining this with the constriction her nodules will already hold over the actual folds themselves, this creates a very damaging effect. It's an unfortunate habit that Mariah has used throughout her entire singing career and as her voice has deteriorated more and more she is forced to use such constriction to hit higher notes. This is most likely why she lip-syncs so much now, particularly to her older songs, because she can no longer hit such notes without putting severe strain on her vocal folds and she KNOWS this.
ReplyDeleteOf course, this is just 'fan speculation' but I, honestly, cannot think of any other theory/excuse to why she now sounds the way she does.
Good lord shame on me. I'm so sorry! I know how obnoxious it is when others confuse your countries. People often think that swiss = swedish. Shame shame shame LOL.
ReplyDeleteEat your words is a really poor word choice. I meant that the swiss dialect is 100x throatier, more unelegant and non melodious. There's no denial.
I was really really really tired when I wrote this, I hope you'll forgive me for my horrible mistakes.
Yeah, but the problem with Amy is that she has ZERO stamina in live performances. When she's sitting still her vocals are amazing, but the moment she starts to move she loses her breath and her voice becomes inconsistent like a badly cooked souffle. A pitty since her voice and style are one of the most unique I've ever heard.
ReplyDeleteBTW, when has Charlotte sung rock and punk songs? I'd love to see that!
I hate his voice too. Lol, I don't have too many examples of people with dark voices so I said the first person that came to my mind. And there were people who said he was a baritone?
ReplyDeleteYou mean that dude that slays those notes on the Honda commercials? ROFL....I love him! I was so perplexed as to who he was (even though they said his name in the commercial). I like his voice a lot.
ReplyDeleteBut thanks for the perspective change. I was thinking of those light girly tenor voices as being the tenor medium and that any one with a voice a bit more meaty had a darker voice.
LOL, I wasn't as terrible as I thought. I'll keep practicing and practicing. Also I'm still confused to what my voice type is, I'll say somewhere between full-lyric and spinto from what a few vocal coaches at my school and the people here so, but do you have a few "practice arias" that you can lend for someone still developing their true tenor mix?
ReplyDeleteYeah, I still am (even though I don't like our band program that much...) And Grainger is really weird but an extremely popular composer in the band regime.
ReplyDeleteI don't like Georgia...at all...from all the places I've lived, including California and Australia, I have to say Georgia is one the most boring and interactive. You need a ride to get anywhere which SUCKS because I don't have a legal license and if you don't have the latest polo shoes and vineyard vines, then you're an outsider (at least where I live).
As for sports though, it is the best. I play American Football and I LOVE IT in the southeast.
Haha my mom's job causes us to relocate a lot. But I'm staying in Georgia for good now. At least until I graduate -- when that happens, I want to move back to the west coast.
Can't say I have, but I'm open to new music.
She had a TV show during the summer like 6 or 7 years ago, and she would sing the theme song with a different musical style in every new episode.
ReplyDeleteTry Jackie Wilson :) He is one of the most amazing R&B vocalists I've ever heard, his voice was rich and beautiful with great phrasing and an immaculate vocal range.
ReplyDeleteI'd also give you an example of my own voice if you wanna hear, I'm a spinto/dramatic tenor voice, with a baritonal vocal color and metal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS9xhiudphU
Oh God, no...the Justins and Ushers and Ne-Yos, etc sing mostly in a tessitura C4-A4, which is not so much tenor range but alto. A lyric tenor tessitura is more F3-G4, and a spinto/dramatic tenor tessitura would be more Eb3-F4.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, women in pop mostly sing in a C4-A4 tessitura, which is alto range, a very narrow range. And when they sing "high" notes is up to F5 or G5 at the most, which is not very high at all for a soprano or even mezzo-soprano.
Well, I always advice to smooth out the middle first
ReplyDeleteAnd you should start singing light arias, baroque arias are very good for that :) anything by Handel, which is a balm for the voice. When you are more advanced I would say you can try Mozart and Bellini or Donizetti.
Lol, how you referred to them... You hit a point. I haven't heard a tenor belt a solid G#3 in pop.... Like....ever. And none of them have real volume. That is kinda why I've always been bored with male pop stars and favored females. Like, how many "true" baritones do we have in pop? Like...none.
ReplyDeleteThanks
ReplyDeleteYes to white words in dark background! It is proved that it is the less harmful combination for the retina when you have to read long texts and with the frequent discussions this blogs attracts, reducing the amount of effort our retinas have to do is something needed!
ReplyDeleteNow this is a gorgeous voice. Also, I'm familiar with your content on youtube. I subscribed on youtube long, long ago. I do like your voice. I wanna hear you cover "Flawless" by Beyonce one day too....LOL. Seriously, who can't love "Flawless"....
ReplyDeleteSometimes I like eye scorchers...
ReplyDeleteI restarted my Pokemon Y. Anyway, this is my FC: 1864-9244-2288
ReplyDeleteHonestly, to see a mezzo-soprano sing an ingenue role would be great. However, I understand your point. I still think that vocal classification, especially given how many singers there are today who DON'T use amplification, should have more voice types as 'accepted' types. Because voices are no longer bound by the type of role that they play, they are only bound by what the voice can accomplish.
ReplyDeleteOh Baltsa - she will forever be my Carmen, if only for sake of the fact that I watched the DVD recording as my first Carmen.
That would make you, what, a low tenor? High baritone? I'm glad with my E2-A5, however, the highs are more 'feminine' in quality, as I'm more or less in pure head voice upwards of E5, and while the whistle register/mixed high head voice will kick in at around B5, it's not quite reliable enough to be considered as part of the range.
James Arthur is the only one who comes to mind, even though he hasn't had too much success besides his cover of "Impossible"
ReplyDeleteI know this is off subject but this workshop was amazing. I wanna go to a workshop when I get out on my own. I'm gonna turn the fuck up...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9xGFji3hj0
LOL, I love that song! I clap my boot like a stripper when dancing to it.
ReplyDeleteIn country one finds a bunch of good baritones though
ReplyDeleteAnd sometimes in rock. But yeah, one of the things I try to do with my singing is show an alternative to the squeaky high male voices. I have a high range, but my voice is dark and heavy, and in general I tend to prefer more baritonal vocal colors.
I agree, for me. Singing a bit lower without feeling an excessive need to lighten my voice is what I really like to do, mainly because I'm terribly lazy. LOL, but I doubt I sounds like a baritone even if I tried, so I applaud you on that front. I wish I was a baritone......TBH....
ReplyDeleteIf my friends and I start the year off rolling, expect to see a choreography video for this song on my channel. I just love it when she gives me rachet teas.... Makes me love my southern upbringing.
ReplyDeleteI too believe the whisper register has contributed to much of the deterioration, not only will it create folds as you said. It also dries out the cords and adds unnatural pressure, which will thicken nodules among other things. Mariah is a master at manipulating the sound of her voice for different effect, I wonder if she ever though or was advised about the long term damage that would occur from doing the whisper singing. I like the the way she used the whisper singing in "Cant Let Go',it gave the song a sort of sensual airy sound. But I guess when she started using it as signature sound after 93' it took its toll. Now when she does her improvisations and she rambles in the whisper register it sound terrible and shrill.
ReplyDeleteI think her new found freedom in 96' from leaving Mattola,she popped bottles with Brat and Jermaine didnt help. I saw a documentary where she stated that Jermaine would try to get her to go out with his entourage but she had to be home every night for dinner,orders via Tommy. To keep a voice like Mariah's in top shape, there's definitely gotta be some sacrifices that can be hard for a young person.
Now for Whitney, Its hard to believe she is no longer with us. She had such a larger than life presents. She,Luther Vandross, Patti and Mariah are the first two singer I ever heard as child. So I think till this day thats why im so judgmental of vocals because they literally where the first that I learned and for me personally when asked Whitney or Maria which one is better, I genuinely love them both but play them for different reasons. I prefer Mariah for her her extreme range, dramatic highs and lows, multi tones and sultriness. Whitney, her power, solid voice all around, richness, operatic sound to her falsetto, perfect vibrato even though she would sometimes use her jaw (do I need to say more). 1991 Is the year I think her performances on SNL 'All The Man That i Need' and 'The Star Spangled Banner'. Which are two of my favorite live of hers. If only she and Mariah could have duet in 1991,could you imagine the vocals. I consider her debut to 1992 is what I consider her prime even though her voice was still stellar in 93 to 1996. I think her voice just began to darken after 1991 .Probubly from cigarettes and larynx misplacement issue an over touring as Mariah; having to sing all demanding material 100% live. I think around 1996 is when her lifestyle with Bobby and smoking began to take is toll. But even in 1999 her head voice was solid, as seen in live performance of 'There's Music In You'. After that i was a bit dissapointed with 'Just Whitney'. She did look great on the album cover. I Prefer not to think of her last few performances I cant watch them.
Except that Star spangled Banner wasn't live was it? I seem to recall it was pre-taped
ReplyDeleteAt the Miami game yes it was pre recorded but she performed it live in concert.
ReplyDeleteAha! I thought you meant the famous televised one.
ReplyDeleteLOL No worries! I figured it was an honest mistake and I can think of worse places to be confused with than Denmark.
ReplyDeleteI agree the Swiss German accent is not the prettiest. But there are some German dialects which are softer sounding.
Also, I don;t necessarily feel throatier sounds are unmelodious by definition.
I mean I also love the sound of Hebrew which als has some guttural sounds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72QC8EGnxTw
yeah christina's head voice is great but for a studio recording it still sounds really rough
ReplyDeleteespecially when you compare their belting at the end
usually you dont notice the roughness and scratchiness of xtina's voice in studio recordings but it was somewhat apparent here
i do like this version though and i cant help but root them on for girl power
plus its a fitting song for xtina as well cuz shes always been criticized for her fluctuating body weight
AMY IS FLAW FREE
ReplyDeleteLOL, I'm a very "private school" type of person, almost victorian in discipline and self-restrain. But I do enjoy getting "ratchet" sometimes. When I listen to hip-hop it's the nastiest and ghettoest I can find...Like, Khia for example:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvhLK3-AEj4
Well, some of Mozart's lighter female roles are really better suited for mezzo-soprano than for soprano. For example Zerlina, Susanna, etc. Though they are usually sung by lyric sopranos and soubrettes.
ReplyDeleteI'm equally comfortable singing lyric baritone or high tenor, as well as coloratura tenor stuff - my voice is naturally agile. But my voice really blooms in the spinto/dramatic tenor stuff. I would call myself a "Dramatico d'agilita" such as Hermann Jadlowker and Andrea Nozzari, but with an extended top range.
Yes, in regards to 'Whitney Houston', I thoroughly agree. I consider '1985 - 1992' to be her true- vocal prime albeit, irrespective of the darkening of her tone post- 1993, she was still very much capable of giving fantastic live performances between then and 1995. Her 'Whitney, I'm Your Baby Tonight & The Bodyguard' era's are my favorite vocal moments of hers. My Mom had seen Whitney on multiple occasions; her 'Moment of Truth, I'm Your Baby Tonight & The Bodyguard' world tours and she still remembers those nights thoroughly and is still AMAZED by the gift she possessed. Nevertheless, between 1996 - 1999 is when the trouble started; she started to have severe difficulty utilizing her chest voice post- E5 to which she would become incredibly shrill if she did, and would often use her head-voice/falsetto in replacement. Her voice, however, did blossom in richness and solidity but it was an artificial one as a result of her 'Nodules, Smoking & Free-Basing'; her tonality was always gorgeous but, by then, it had started to lose it's warmth and clarity. She sounded the best, then, between 'F4 - D5/Eb5' by the time the early 2000's (Pre- 2002 in particular) came around.
ReplyDeleteAll in all, aside from the negatives, I very much prefer Whitney to Mariah although I am a gargantuan fan of both. I've always considered Whitney to be one of the rare vocalists of whom performed better and was much more consistent in 'live settings' as opposed to the 'studio', unlike Mariah. I think Whitney was a much more interactive singer than Mariah and her stage presence was incredible. Personally, I've also always considered Whitney to be the "Black- Barbra Streisand" and Mariah to be the "Black/Bi-Racial Teena Marie" if anything.
In the spirit of "better late than never"..I just discovered this track by Anouk...
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBDN1xhcmeQ
Also, you have to remember that Mariah has had her past battles with 'Smoking & Alcoholism'.
ReplyDeleteOne of her back-up singers once said that Mariah was "...Quite the Smoker" between 1990 - 1992 but she stopped sometime around '1993' because she realized the trouble that was having on her voice. This, alone, proves another theory of mine; if you listen to the sound and dynamics of her voice between 1990 - 1992, it possessed a very rich & solid quality (that may have been brought on via. her smoking habits of which gave it an artificial thickness) but by 1993, when she had stopped, her voice quickly restored itself and reverted back to its ORIGINAL form which was 'naturally- light & high', but, as a repercussion and consequence, her voice now had a husky quality to it which added more pressure to her nodules.
Also, Mariah began drinking heavily between 1998/2001 - she has said this herself. This is what may have ruined and deteriorated her voice even more during that time. Nevertheless, this period wasn't exactly her best, personally & professionally speaking because of the backlash that Tommy and her Record Label were surmounting her with. She probably found solace in drinking for a time but her breakdown proved otherwise.
Part of me hates these medley's. They never seem cohesive. The song choices were great but it all seemed so choppy. I think vocally Mariah has moments where she's spot on and moments where she's just off. Being that it was December in NY and she didn't have on much, I don't blame her for lipping at least some of it. Cold weather is a bear to sing in.
ReplyDeleteWho would you say was the better singer? T.T or J.J.
ReplyDeleteI think J.J was the better singer and had more vocal talent and a wider range but T.T was great too. I love their raspy tones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEnDJN7EGHQ
Objectively speaking, I don't think it's fair for you to say one was the "better singer" or "had more vocal talent" because neither of them were the greatest nor the most obvious of technical vocalists. Subjectively speaking, however, it would much more fitting to say whose 'tone/style/musicality' you like/love/appreciate more and so fourth. Nonetheless, they both had incredible instruments and were the rawest as well as the most soulful and impassioned of singers you could ever find.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I love their voices both the same albeit I do adore Janis' music much more than Tina's solo output. Notwithstanding, Tina.T is a 'Dramatic- Mezzo-Soprano' of whom possessed the, naturally, wider lower register/mid-register and had a 'medium-to-large' vocal size and volume output whereas Janis.J was a 'Full Lyric- Mezzo-Soprano' (although her voice deteriorated into that, she was a 'Full Lyric-Soprano in her early years) and had a 'small-to-medium', though generally medium- based, volume output and vocal size along with a much more clear and effortless upper- register. They were both able to mix incredibly well - up to a stunning B5/C6 - albeit where Janis' voice would wane in power, Tina's voice would blossom as she ascended higher into her range.
Really? I LOVE LOVE to play Pokemon. :P
ReplyDeleteYou are thinking,and I thought I knew a lot about these vocalist. I have never thought about your theory before, but it makes a perfect sense, (artificial thickness). The shift from her full, darker 1990- 92, then in-between transition in 1993, when she stopped smoking, her voice would begin to return to its natural state. Then by 1994 her natural, clear, high and light sound returned. Even her speaking voice in older interviews sounded different in those early years. I can even see that in Rihanna, (Im in no way saying she is on there level.) But since her debut she began smoking and we constantly see the pics she post on Instagram smoking whatever. There are a lot of people who argue Rihanna's voice improved and gotten fuller.
ReplyDeleteDrinking, nodules, stress, lack of rest, over usages, demanding, songs, and backlash from past smoking habits can take a voice down. Now vocal hemorrhage I don't know to much about.
I can see how the artificial thickness is affected Whitney voice. In her debut year 1985, her first performance of 'Home', her voice was at its lightest and thinnest natural sound. I;m guessing once her smoking habit picked up, her habit slowly got heavier and her voice got fuller. Now In 1991 'The Bodygaurd' was filmed and opened in 1992. According to Whitney, she says the freebasing started soon as 'The Bodyguard' was finished and at that time she began dating Bobby. So Im guessing the cigarettes and now the added freebasing darkened and gave the faux fullness also highlighting the rich layer in her voice as a we could hear in 1993. As you said in 1996 any belts above Eb was shril and by 1998 turned into complete rasp. Her Nodules were taking affect and her voice sounded dry. But throughout her stamina remained impressive, which is something Mariah has lacked. I agree Mariah has for the most been a studio artist more so after 1993. Even hearing her some of the audio from the the Music Box tour archives, Im not sure if she was just sick or didnt realize she had Nodules at that point but she sounded winded an couldn't reach some of her chest notes higher notes.
ReplyDeleteMy Grandmother who raised went to a Whitney Concert back in 1990 and told me how powerful her voice and that it echoed throughout the venue and her high notes was the best she ever heard. I think I prefer Mariah songs, I guess for the lyric content. but vocally I would have much rather experienced Whitney live.
What I like about Mariah is that she ADAPTS quickly to the changes happening to her voice caused by I dunno what, and that's pretty cool
ReplyDeleteMariah's tits are hotter than the sun so what you're saying is impossible..... LOL
ReplyDeleteI didn't like this song, AT ALL...
ReplyDeleteThere is something that I didn't like about it. It just seemed rushed and all over the place. LOOOL. Come on Lea, you are much better than this sh*t.
No shade to Lea, but you def need to do the Sia vocal profile! Sia is EPIC vocally. She doesn't necessarily have the broadest vocal range, but she surely knows how to use her voice the most effectively.
ReplyDeleteOh, and back to the song. It's boring, Lea's vocals sound so uninspired.